.....every creation has some purpose... Options

[habraxas]

Samsolo reminded me ov something that i thought was interesting.

My mother in law has recently started to become a catholic.
As she suffers from Parkinson's she used to be quite an advocate ov stem cell research, but last time i saw her she started on about how the life ov the embryo is sacred because it's a potential human being.

We got into quite an argument which ended w/her saying
"You'd have to be a parent to understand".....

Anyway, one ov my main points was that as the total rate of natural loss of human embryos increases to at least 80 percent if one counts from the moment of conception, then obviously "the creator"/nature/whatever doesn't consider the embryo as sacred as these 'right to lifers' do.

http://reason.com/archives/2004/12/22/is-h...ated-chiefly-by

John Opitz, a professor of pediatrics, human genetics, and obstetrics and gynecology at the University of Utah, testified before the President's Council on Bioethics that between 60 and 80 percent of all naturally conceived embryos are simply flushed out in women's normal menstrual flows unnoticed. This is not miscarriage we're talking about. The women and their husbands or partners never even know that conception has taken place; the embryos disappear from their wombs in their menstrual flows. In fact, according to Opitz, embryologists estimate that the rate of natural loss for embryos that have developed for seven days or more is 60 percent. The total rate of natural loss of human embryos increases to at least 80 percent if one counts from the moment of conception. About half of the embryos lost are abnormal, but half are not, and had they implanted they would probably have developed into healthy babies.

[Lolly]

I am a parent, and if my child had a disease that could be helped/cured through stem cell research, I would (I am) certainly for it!

[Nepenthe]

I tend to believe that every creation has some purpose, but for some, that purpose may only be to be used for stem cells. There are some belief systems which state that a soul doesn't actually enter the body until x-number of days after conception. I think this is a really interesting line of thought, as "life" in the sacred sense doesn't necessarily begin right at the moment of conception. This is a view that I'm inclined to agree with.

[tukum]

I believe God knows us before we are put into the womb.
Perhaps God makes our soul ahead of the time the embryo is attached to the womb and at some point,I dont know when,our soul and spirit is injected by God.
Just a thought.
Tukum

[ratgirldjh]

i believe that we are all infinite beings and what happens to our physical bodies doesn't really matter (well it can be uncomfortable while we are in them LOL) but i believe that if a body/fetus is destroyed IF there is a 'soul' already in it - it doesn't matter - the 'soul' will just go back to where it came from and go into another body or not... depending on what it wants to do... and that maybe some 'souls' even decide to either experience the abortion, miscarriage, etc. and that then it doesn't matter what happens to the 'body' - i.e. stem cells, etc... and in fact it would be sadder IMO to just waste these cells... now i'm not too sure about 'raising' fetus's just for this purpose - but perhaps it would be the same - or perhaps souls would realize this and not enter them - or decide to enter them to experience the stem cell research thing LOL

i believe we are eternal - and we are just choosing to be here in these bodies to experience the world in bodies instead of in spirit form - so it really doesn't matter to me - but i can understand how people who don't believe this way would feel otherwise...

This post has been edited by ratgirldjh: Dec 9 2009, 12:21 PM

[teajay]

Once they get it in their head, no amount of
logic will work- it's very much like teaching a pig to
sing: wasting your time & annoying the pig.

The funny thing about "Pro-Life" people here in the US-
a big percentage of them are also Pro-Capital Punishment.

"We'll wait to see how he turns out, then if we don't like him, kill
him then."

That's not Pro-Life, it's Pro-Crastination.

But anyway, as someone born into the Catholic Church, I find it
interesting that someone would be drawn to it as they age.
For me and lots of others, the more I learn in general, the less superstitious
I become, which I now see was a lot of the whole deal.
But to each his own, I say- that is, until they tell me how I'm supposed
to think/live/love/whatever.

[ratgirldjh]

see my siggy

[dogear]

Who created god? Nuf said.

[somsolo]

Samsolo? If that was supposed to be Somsolo lol what did I remind you of?

The mysteries of life all right here...... No answers from me, just opinion on observation....say the last world war, some 50 to 70 million people killed in about 6 years or so.....thinking much about that presents some problems to the idea that we are choosing to be here physically as being in a non-corporeal form would be kind of boring. Which makes sense, I always wondered wtf would god as presented in the bible DO all day??? And to me anyway, thinking those numbers over presents some really big problems with someone trying to say that all human life is somehow sacred and above the natural world, just not buying it. Animals that can talk and make cool stuff and take themselves way too seriously when it suits the purpose sounds more accurate

What am I doing, any argument for or against anything stemming from any religious conviction means fuck all to me any day of the week.

I just totally do not understand the central idea of so many religions that every thing living or not in the material universe is somehow separate from that which "created" it. Sure they mostly SAY that this is so, but the ideas in peoples minds that somehow god is watching and making things happen or not happen and is totally separate from all this, just can't get a grasp on how to sustain that kind of thinking and not deceive myself at the same time for however long.

Teajay, excellent.

When I'm a bit more in the grip of God's Own LOL, might have some further and more coherent thoughts on the subjects....

This post has been edited by somsolo: Dec 24 2009, 10:00 PM

[ratgirldjh]

Who created god? Nuf said.

LOL why 'he' was always here...

[laughinbuddha]

"How come when it's us, it is an abortion, and when it is a chicken it's an omelet?" asks, the late and great, George Carlin

I think it's the feeling of separateness. If you consider yourself a Catholic you are something different from the others, let alone chickens. This idea that one soul or life is more important than any other soul/life really shouldn't be so arbitrary.

Well, it's not arbitrary or merely subjective if God himself is doing the judging. Catholics have a book they can go by, so they don't have to think for themselves.

Sorry, it's not just Catholics they are just the ones that I am most familiar with.

[ratgirldjh]

ok - i just want to know what my purpose is??? anyone??? please???

[Karmacrab]

To be the eyes and the ears of the universe, you fool.

[ratgirldjh]

thanks!