Fall Grow For Spring Flowers Zone 9 Options

[Foyle]

Hello Poppy Flower Fans!

I am happy to say that this years Fall garden has commenced!

Last week the bed was prepared which consisted of turning over the dirt in the bed, laying in a good layer of compost, a few inches of fresh store bought dirt on top of that, and finally some dirt from several flower pots with about a third as much extra sand mixed in to top it off. Likely another inch or two of store bought soil will be added prior to actual planting into the bed.

This evening the peat pots were set up in a tray, watered, and seeds added.

This season will be some of the McC Gourmet again which were so successful last season but also experiments with two other culinary brands, plus a half dozen other strains which were purchased from several different garden outlets.

This years bed wasn't expanded in size like last year and remains about 25-30 ft. long and about 3 ft. wide. Last year three rows of 25 were laid out which seemed a little cramped once the plants hit their big, leafy lettuce stage prior to bolting but it turned out to be a bonus in terms of when it started to warm up a little and the plants began to lean, they helped support each other.

Does anyone have an opinion on this?

Perhaps have only two rows so there's that much more nutrients and space for strong roots available - the idea being that it would be better to not have plants need each other to keep from falling over late in their cycle?

Anyway, th next update will be when the seeds begin to sprout, which ought to be in a week or so. The big question with that is the two new culinary seed experiments are unknowns and the garden outlet seeds, though they were stored in the dark and kept cool and dry, are two years old at this point.

Hey Br@nd - if you're reading this, since I think we're in a similar zone, you going to grow some more beauties this season?

-Foyle

[poppybgood]

Hi Foyle It's good to hear you're going with another Mc Grow. They have been by far the easiest to germinate he's tried, and they handled the heat from his super(goofed up) late grow this spring. He even got a couple dozen marbles from them!! The H&C's killed over with the quickness when the 90 + temps arrived, and the gourms trucked right on through.He's in zone 8b, and high temps in the 70's will be here by the end of the week. He's gonna try some sparse sowing and some peat pellets this time. Good luck, and I hope those little hatchlings are kickin butt.

[Foyle]

Checked the neighbor's little nursery and things appear to be moving along with one or two minor setbacks - but nothing that would scotch the spring garden at this point (knock wood).

He had the seeds in their peat pellets in tray in the fridge and covered for three days and then, leaving the tray covered, put them under a CFL array for a few days more. Temps in the low 70's in the room, guessing.

Started to get some mold action on a couple peat pellets and only about a quarter of the seeds sprouted - likely the McGourms.

Removed the cover - now direct light from the array - and dropped the temp in the room a few degrees - mold seems to be either gone or checked.

Then sprinkled in McGourms in the 75% remaining peat pellets where sprouts weren't happening and not surprisingly, sprouts are now happening.

The original 25% are just getting their first set of tiny "real" leaves and there's a few which are shaped a little different than the others and as my neighbor, wanting to be surprised by the flower colors later on down the line didn't keep track of which pellets had which seeds. it's possible that there will be a few which might add some different color to the affair.

In any case, once the sprouts get transplanted into the garden, he might think about a scientific method comparison of seeds one can get in the spice aisle at the supermarket.

Good luck on the gardening! Based on last year's garden, if the temps stay below 70 after one has actually planted, it seems the McG's seem hardy enough to make it through to flowering, which in this zone means getting them in the ground sometime in mid to late October - the idea this time around my neighbor says is to try to give the plants enough time to grow so when the time comes for them to start flowering, they will be big, strong, and presumably hardy enough to where they can hold on longer (while making more flowers) when the temps start pushing past the low 70's. I planted a bunch of red Flanders - seeds I got at a hardware store nursery a couple years ago and as soon the temps stayed at or above 75 for a couple days, that was all she wrote for them.

-Foyle

[oblomovka]

Sowing in fall is great idea, although we have different reasons to do it, your problem is the heat, my plants will have to face frosts and snow in the winter. It is great to have one part of the harvest about a month earlier. And what harvest.... - The plants are much bigger with more pods per plant.

bed was prepared which consisted of turning over the dirt in the bed, laying in a good layer of compost, a few inches of fresh store bought dirt on top of that, and finally some dirt from several flower pots with about a third as much extra sand mixed in to top it off. Likely another inch or two of store bought soil will be added prior to actual planting into the bed

I wish I could give such attention to every single bed of my garden, your plants will have paradise-like conditions. I wish you good luck.
I am not familiar with McCorms, are they Tazz or what is the origin of them?

[Foyle]

"McCorm" is a slang term referencing a popular culinary seed product often found in the spice aisle at the supermarket. Also called, "McGourm" in reference to the manufacturer's "Gourmet" brand found in a glass bottle. The "Gourmets" reportedly appear to have a better germination rate than the "regular," small plastic container offerings.

As to where they come from, it's kind of a mystery - I seem to remember the "Mc" manufacturer saying on their site that their seeds came from Holland and this brand produces flowers which were white or very light pink with pinkish to violet centers, as well as some which were violet to purple with dark, almost black centers. I have seen pics of the white/pink flowers identified as growing in Holland and similar pics reportedly from Tasmania and I have seen pics of the purple/black ones identified as Turkish. I doubt there's any, one seed provider 'Mc" uses.

The "Micks" also seem to push out multiple flowers per plant as opposed to the classic single bolt often seen in Asian fields.

My neighbor's composting is quite simply yard clippings - grass, leaves - plus coffee grounds, fruit rinds ect from the kitchen. - piled in a shady corner and added to and turned as the year goes by and the store bought dirt is really just a compositional supplement since the soil around here tends to be very "clay-ey," not very loamy at all.

[oblomovka]

Thanks. I guess I've grown similar plants in in 2006. I've bought some dry pods that were from Holland. There is so many poppies having the same color, but those were big with multiple pods on plant. I've read that tasmanian seeds are used for culinary purposes in U.S.A., so I thought that there are some tasmanians in McGourm.
These (Holland) were beautiful plants with huge pods, not bad at all, but I found out that big plants are not good for my garden, there is too long waiting for side pods while storm or fungal infection can kill them. Now my goal is to have one pod per plant and 65-70 plants on square meter, it is more safe in the climate we have.

I am composting too. Nearly everything that's left in the kitchen or garden. I meant that I can't use compost from the shop on my large garden. It would be too costal. This year I plan to get some horse manure in the village.

[Foyle]

One thing I did notice with my neighbor's garden - when he removed a flower so to encourage more bolting, while other bolts were occurring on the plant, the plant would immediately go into decline - drying up, leaves getting crunchy, almost as if the plant was being halted in its tracks - don't know if it was because of the fresh "wound" of a flower being removed or some ailment or what have you.

Other bolts already bolting on a plant which had had a flower trimmed would continue on to flower stage but flower size would always decline as the multiple bolts ran their course.

Typically, the first seed-pod would be in the large golf-ball size, followed by a couple two or three seed pods which were either golf ball sized or slightly smaller and perhaps another one or two from grape to pecan size before the plant ultimately cashed it in.

[beaker]

Hello Foyle

I'm new to joining the Forum, but have been reading posts here for months now. I'm conducting research to write a "how to grow" manual. The manual is specifically targeted for only those individuals who are legally prescribed opiate-based medication. The manual is intended to instruct only these individuals, in the event there is a world-wide catastrophe, and can't acquire their legally prescribed medication any longer.
You've done an excellent job, thoroughly documenting your neighbor's gardening in the past. It's provided me with a wealth of information for my book. Having never grown myself, your instructions were so precise and detailed, I have little reservations that even I could manage some success, if I ever had to try.
I have a couple of questions, to help me understand the flowering process better. I understand your neighbor removes the flower for his arrangements, and doing so will produce another flower. Where exactly does the cut need to be made along the stem, to remove the flower intactly?
After you have sucessfully removed the flower, how long before another flower is produced and READY to be removed the next time? An estimate will do.
Thanks for your help. And it's great to finally "meet" you!

beaker

[Foyle]

I have read that cutting the flower for further bolting and flowering should be down to just above where the next lower set of leaves or separate bolt are occurring.

So, if one imagines the letter 'Y' where the left arm of the 'Y' is the flower and bolt and where the next lowest set of leaves and or separate bolt is at the bottom of the right arm of the 'Y.' one would make the cut a little up the arm from where the left arm attaches.

That said, my neighbor's plants after he would remove a flower never generated another bolt from the area where he cut - but other proto-flowers in the process of bolting would continue on - the idea here being the plant's growth is re-directed to the other bolts when the flower is removed from a plant.

There are, btw, books, manuals, forum entries, and websites which pretty much describe an "A to Z" of how to gardening - a little searching might save you a lot of time writing a manual.

On this forum I recommend you look at br@nd's grow logs - very informational.

From what I've read, if say one were to farm poppies for medicine, just like in countries like Tasmania, Holland, India, and Turkey where they are farmed legally, a LOT of acreage filled with a LOT of plants is required - we're talking acres and acres - and unless the farming and processing is mechanized, it sounds like it is very labor intensive.

Good luck!

[beaker]

Thanks Foyle for the advice. Yes, I've read most of the FAQs and posts belonging to indoor and outdoor growing. It's funny you mentioned br@nd, because it was his very first documented "McCormicks Grow" that was my very 1st read here at the forum. I believe the very first post I read was br@nd moving from Kentucky to Florida, and losing some plants in a u-haul due to heat.
I think both you and Br@nd do a bang up job documenting grows. (Probably the best in the whole Forum)So, yes......I have been reseaching all the available info here daily for the past several months. I've gained so much info for my book. Its prctically writing itself! But thanks for clearing up proper procedures for removing flowers intact from the bolts.

beaker

[MEKONE]

Where exactly does the cut need to be made along the stem, to remove the flower intactly?
After you have sucessfully removed the flower, how long before another flower is produced and READY to be removed the next time? An estimate will do.

Foyle is correct in the description as to where the cut needs to be made,as for a time frame my pal would have to say it all depends on the growing conditions.
You CAN start to see growth in as little as a week or so IF the conditions are good.
Along with the current forum,I would suggest you look into the "Old Forum" as there is a TON of info in there.
Is your friend leaning towards a soil or hydro grow?

[Foyle]

Foyle is correct in the description as to where the cut needs to be made,as for a time frame my pal would have to say it all depends on the growing conditions.
You CAN start to see growth in as little as a week or so IF the conditions are good.
Along with the current forum,I would suggest you look into the "Old Forum" as there is a TON of info in there.
Is your friend leaning towards a soil or hydro grow?

One thing to look for - and one would have to look closely - the seeds right before they starting shooting their sprout (teeny stalk with teeny leaves) will appear slightly swollen and sort of reddish brown - kind of a burnt red.

Given a larger area where one might grow, one might consider soaking one's seeds in water in the fridge for a couple days before casting them out in the field - at least in warmer zones.

The idea here being to mimic the "just coming out of Winter cycle" where the seed's dormancy is cracked via the warmup once out of the fridge (or snow) and the moisture of the snow melt/spring rains which one would guess the seeds have evolved for.

Naturally, sun is important, too and that, one would guess, becomes a matter of luck given a northern hemisphere Fall planting means the sunlight is coming from a lower angle every day and days are getting shorter until the 3rd week of December and it's only around March when daylight overtakes night again in length of time over 24 hours.

The best bet for a larger area to maximize optimum conditions would be to track the weather and try to figure out when a good, steady rain and drizzle is going to be and sew then.

That or just sew the seeds over the general grow area and let nature take its course.

As mentioned before, over a larger area, one might consider mixing the seeds with sand and then broadcasting them over the area but keep in mind these seeds appear to really need moisture - not soaking - but damp for a week or so to kick in and get growing.